In previous events I have heard about the CP's being posted on the web 24 hours before the event. This sounds like a great idea, being able to mark the map in the peace and quiet of my house! Does anyone know if this is likely to be repeated? Thanks

Checkpoints will be posted on the web with map corrections 24 hours in advance as normal.

Thanks Graham.

When will we know the OS map that the event will use?

Sorry, I'm new to this forum and found the answer on another thread.
"Standard 1:50000 OS Sheet 94 Whitby, Robin Hoods Bay and Eskdale"
So I've answered my own question!

Does 24 hours in advance mean by early Thursday evening so that us southerners can mark the map up before we travel up north on Friday?

Peter B, thats a good point. I hope also that they are available so I can mark my map on Thursday evening as I'll be travelling on Friday.
Last year I seem to remember they were available Wednesday?

What happened to the waypoints appearing on the tracklogs website for techies to download them onto GPS?

This wasn't done for IOM, and the format used when they were downloaded from the PC site meant it was a real bitch to convert them for GPS.

24 hours prior to what?

Registration opening I presume?

The form in the past has been to (say they will) release the checkpoints at 6pm on Thursday.

Unfortunately, Polaris seem to operate about 2 hours behind everybody else, which is slightly ironic, seeing as if we all turned up two hours late at the end one of the first day...

Iain S, you could always download them on Thursday night and travel up the night before, you big whinger! Anyway, half the fun is marking up with a beer in your hand when you get there! (and wondering why you've marked a checkpoint in the middle of the sea...). I'll race you there on Friday and I've got a 5 mile head-start on you.
As for you, GearFreek, what happened to the good old days of dialling each digit, one at a time into your eTrex? Last year, my thumb ached for 2 days longer than my ar*e and I was proud of it...

What's all this about GPS, this is supposed to be a navigational event, not a read the numbers off the screen event. How about using your brain rather than relying on an electronic box.

Next thing you know, we'll be seeing car style "on bike navigation systems", I can imagine it now, struggling along trying to read a map and look where i'm going at the same time when I get the sh*t scared out of me by some electronic female voice (why are they always female)? out of nowhere, saying "turn left at next byway junction"

Mind you as they will be set up to avoid congestion, maybe they will turn riders away from busy checkpoints!!!

On a more serious note, as this is supposed to as much a test of navigational ability as it is fitness and riding skills, shouldn't there be a ban on outside assistance such as GPS? Call me a luddite (well you will now) but somehow it just don't seem to be in the spirit of the event.

And before someone starts spouting on about "it's no different to a compass" a compass only comes out when you really need it, it doesn't assist you all the time and you still need to know how to use it in the field (which goes at bit further than reading the instruction booklet).

Rant over!

Not having used it myself, but having seen it in action, I'm not sure that it helps to speed things up. Instead of just not knowing where you are on the map, you have the additional confusion of not knowing if the GPS is right. One additional degree of freedom/error!

Come on Luddite - only real Men and Women use GPS.

The settings for input into GPS's was not done by Polaris but from memory some outfit selling GPS systems.
We will post the NGR's with URL's to Streetmaps so you do't even need to plot them just print out the map that appears magically on your screen (1:50000 scale too.
GPS have there place but in my experience they do not always match up with the map.
Perhaps we should consider banning them.

Dear Ludite and Graham

I would not like to see the banning of GPS as my partner is a poor navigator and mostly has no idea of where we are, if I render myself unconcious then it MAY enable her to find where she is. We have had the system for several months and find it of no huge navigational advantage so why ban them. If you can't navigate from the map you will not do well in the PC with or without a GPS.

I don't understand all the fuss over GPS. GPS doesn't tell you how good a trail is, whether its boggy, flat, steep - just where you are on it. You still need a map to help gauge the type of terrain you're about to ride. It doesn't find a magic route that you will enable to ride 7 hours and get the winning number of points. It is complimentary to a map, and cannot be relied up on on its own. It is still possible to mis-read a GPS as it is a map.

Having a GPS doesn't avoid the need for careful kit selection, fitness, bike preparation, route selection etc. It is just another tool amongst the many required to finish. For those people who are against their use, I suggest you actually see what using one is like first before you dismiss them as 'not being in the spirit of the event'.

I disagree that it gives an unfair advantage over other competitors. Has anyone won by a significant margin because they used GPS? No. Lets first have some coherence in the rules over the use of waterproof tops and bottoms, standards for home-made tents, suitablility of bivi bags and minimum requirements for first aid kits.

Yes I agree with you Ian that they do not provide a significant advantage but to level the playing field for those who cannot afford them perhaps no one should carry them.

On the other hand to level the playing field even more....
If they carry a GPS take the map off them.. he he .

Does the latest GPS tell you which of 5 roads at a junction peters out just out of sight and which one goes round the obstacle to the checkpoint?

I don't think so.....

P.S

checkpoints look good.....
A varied placing which look like offering some challenging navigation, unless all the forest has been felled.....

I hate trying to work out which forest road to take.....

It would be better to ban them now, while they are still only marginally useful, than to wait until they really are an effective and practical aid to competent riders, at which point many people will already have bought them (and got used to using them) and will be mightily pissed off at being told to revert to a map and compass!

May be you should ban expensive bikes as well to level the playing field a cheap GPS costs �100 a lot of bikes cost a lot more than that! In fact its not a huge amount more than couple of team entries to PC

I agree with Keith. If you ban GPS why stop there? For example, suspension adds a considerable advantage - all the books and mags say so. When I first started competing in the Polaris very few people had suspension, clipless pedals, super-light frames. The only limit is on how much you can afford and it's ALWAYS been like that in most sports.
You should only ban an innovation when (i) it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that it adds a SIGNIFICANT and UNFAIR advantage - i.e. it must be out of reach to the ordinary competitor and make things MUCH easier or quicker to those that have it; and (ii) the ban can be wholly enforced.

I do not believe that any of these are true in the case of GPS. It helps, a bit. As Ian B writes, they complement your map and compass.

GPS is not like taking drugs, it's like performance enhancing shoes or clothes. MTB enthusiasts love to accessorise in this way - it's all part of the fun. Take the fun away by banning kit for inadequate and unproven reasons and people will drift away from the Polaris.

See you in a couple of days with my map, my compass and my GPS. Tom L (in serious mode for once)

Oh I seem to have touched a raw nerve here.
OK so lets have a retro class for everyone who has a rigid bike, vango mk10 tent, toe clips, big fat knobblies, walking boots, breeches, trangia stove, bobble hat. Just like it were when I was a lad.
Only joking.
We have no intention of banning GPS's as I think they provide no advantage whatsoever as descibed above, however if we ever get to rolling maps then that's a different ball park.

Attempting to steer the thread back to 'on-topic', can I just say the streetmap checkpoints are very useful - cheers.

I'm heading over on Saturday morning, is there loads of map amendments from the master map?

P.S I can't see the point in banning a technical gadget that really doesn't enhance the chance of the user winning.

I've used a GPS on a few of the recent "Polari" and have only really found one situation where it has been an absolute abvantage to have one, namely when you are absolutely lost and haven't a flippin clue where you are.

Considering the skill and experience of the top riders, they are unlikely to find themsleves in a similar position so whether a GPS would benefit them is doubtful.

Most of the time is just nice to back up your belief that you are where you think you are.

What it may do however, is help someone who is in real trouble either lost or in need of medical assitance and who needs to know their precise location.

Instead of banning them, maybe they should become compulsory and form part of the "required" kit :-)

Graham L - you've just described my Autumn and Spring Polaris kit! I'm bound to win the retro class then (for once).

Dunno about rolling maps but would you ban my use of a helicopter this year?

Ta for the checkpoints.

Not much map marking to do as most of the UCR's are now on the new maps, I would really recommend that you all buy one.
4 newly created BW's not yet on maps.
Well done NYMNP!

That's what I like to see a bit of reasoned debate! I knew I was being contraversial with my comments (OK so I was trying to wind people up - looks like I succeeded too) but It's nice to get some honest opinions.

However a couple of comments amused me:

"I suggest you actually see what using one is like first before you dismiss them"

I am quite familiar with GPS, using them for work, so I do know the benefits, hence my original comments. But no I wouldn't bother taking one on a Polaris because I have enough faith in my own navigational ability (although I accept others may struggle but they're most probably much younger and fitter than me so it's swings and roundabouts)

"my partner is a poor navigator"

I'm usually not as fit as my partners, does that mean we should be able to strap a motor to my bike?

"lets have a retro class"

Graham, now that would be a giggle but you forgot to include:
the florescent coloured bike,
purple anodized bike bits,
no v brakes or discs,
lycra helmet covers
(or even better compulsory Etto helmets)
and of course straight handlebars cut down to 12" wide.

No prizes for guessing who started riding way back in 1988! Who am I kidding, my first Polaris (THE first Polaris in October 1991) was on a rigid Cannondale with Pepperoni forks, cantilever brakes, 7 speed thumb shifters but no fat tyres - I had a pair of 1.5" hardpacks, and yes I used toe straps with my walking boots!

In fact the bike is still sitting in my garage, specced in virtually the same way as I kept it as a hack! (it has been updated with DX SPD's and Smoke/Dart tyres...talk about contemporary)!!!