Over the last few years a nimber of you have been asking for pre-marked maps. I can see the logic that it saves time but is it really hiding some basic difficiency in map reading skills?
On the start line I always reinforce the situation with regard to rights of way. In recent years the OS has helped the situation by marking the legal UCR's/white roads/green lanes with red dots. Therefore any black dotted line on the map that does not have
red dots
green dots
read hashed lines
coloured yellow/red
marked as permissive on the master maps
ARE NOT RIGHTS OF WAY AND THEREFORE OUT OF BOUNDS
On the last two events we have marshalled some of these tracks and caught many teams trying to use them, in the NYMNP in the summer I received many complaints about teams deliberately using such tracks and riding through farm yards past private signs.
Poor map reading skills or cheating or just acting like sheep and following others.
Take your pick but now that we are using electronic scoring we will be targetting these tracks in the future.

A very, very small minority are cheating, but I'm
sure the vast majority of 'offenders' use white
roads etc because they are unsure of their
legitimacy.

In every area of the UK there are routes with
none of the markings mentioned above, or
with 'Private' signs on them, which MTBers
use week-in, week-out on social and training
rides. When it comes to Polaris, they're just
unsure - probably because until you posted
the message above, nothing was written
down in black and white, or explained on the
day (the only thing that got mentioned at the
start this Autumn was the track between 16
and 17, and that wasn't until Sunday despite
being pointed out as a possible problem on
Friday night).

It's all very well saying 'people should know',
but if you read the key to an OS map, it doesn't
say "no biking" on white roads - and neither
does it say that anywhere on the Polaris
details. To clarify the situation for future
events, just add your message above to the
final details, and save yourself all those "Is
this legal or not?" questions which omissions
from the master maps invariably throw up.

Pre-marked maps? If it's what the majority
want, and you're losing money due to falling
numbers, what's the problem?

Great event this time btw - give that course
planner a medal.

Generally, I'm all in favour of not having pre-marked maps, prefering to exercise the skill of map reading - it at least gives you a chance to look at the terrain around each check as you put it on...

But, is there any chance of adopting a consistant color system for marking OOB and PP's onto the event map? At each event you get confronted with a different set of colors/dashes/crosses/scribbles that are supposed to mean you can or can't use a piece of trail. I quite liked the system that was used in the IOM where the grid reference of the start and finish of the track that was in/out was published at the same time as the checkpoints. Thus, you can mark up you all of your map before getting to the event, which would reduce congestion in the registration hall a bit.


BTW, what about all those signs you see on farm gates that say "Private - No Entry (for fear of being eaten by viscious sheep dogs etc)", when its quite clear that this is where the bridleway goes..
Its OK to go through these is it?

What is interesting looking through the Quessionnaires that many people completed was that the vast majority DO NOT want pre marked maps. Now this is either down to one or two not completing quesionnaires, lieing on the quesionnaires on lieing on the forum, which should be believed ?

I'd like pre marked maps please - not because I cannot accurately plot cp's onto the map, but because it is the last thing I want to do after a long drive with a short night ahead of me.

Stew -just a thought, but maybe the people
who had time to fill in a questionnaire were
the ones who were able to get to Alston early
on Friday, and for whom pre-marked maps
were therefore not an issue? If the poor sods
who arrived at 11pm had had the time or
inclination to complete one, I suspect the
answer would have been yes...

Zzzzzzzz..... Ah yes the old pre-marked debate - how
interesting.

Just thought I'd comment on this thread as white roads
have been a bugbear of mine for some time. The problem
is that I've known the rule about riding white roads for
ages, as have many keen TQ / Polaris riders that I talk to,
but some people obviously don't, or pretend not to. This
message needs to be delivered more strongly - on the
entry form or perhaps with big posters clearly showing the
rules at registration. It also doesn't help that Trailbreak
don't enforce this rule at their Fat Tyre events.

Of course the other one that people occasionally trot out is
"I know it was a footpath - that's why I was pushing/
carrying my bike!" - who are they kidding?

IanB - don't know where you've been riding, but what
signs? Other than the occasional ploughed up and non-
reinstated track I can't remember the last time I had any
trouble with farms/farmers - why raise this point?

Finally, in case anyone's interested, like someone on
another thread I also had to choose between Polaris/ACE/
KIMM on successive weekends and ACE won.

I think I know what tracks are OK for bike use but am puzzled as to why some obvious paths get marked on the master maps as out-of-bounds, when the simple fact that they are paths removes them from the event. This may give others who are not clear of the status of tracks the impression that other paths are OK.

JonB, I raised the point with the signs slightly tongue in cheek. I know of a couple of farms which bridleways through them in the Beacons and in Mid Wales where there are agressive signs and vicious dogs, though I admit I have never had trouble on a Polaris.

I was trying to point out that although the route may be legal, it may not be passable, as opposed to route that is passable but not legal...

R.e. pre-marked maps
I enjoy marking my map up at home when the check point grid refs come out on the web wed/thursday night. But it does mean I have to buy 2 standard OS maps and cut and paste the relevant regions because the 'special commisioned event map isn't available 'till registration. Also my maps are not always as up to date as the event maps.
(it's worth it when you're arriving on sat. am for registration)

Would it be possible to send the maps out in advance? I'd be happy to send an SAE to cover P&P with my entry form.

Oh and Hearty Thanks to the organisers for the Autumn Polaris. I'm still grinning at the memories!

Liz
I suggested the sending of (pre-marked?) maps in advance in an earlier thread. (And a willingness to pay extra).

Grahams reply:

Sending them out will be a costly administration exercise and only benificial to those with the internet, by picking them up at registration makes it the same for all and I do not know of any other competition that odes this.
I can assure you that if there is a cost/time effective way of doing this we will. Over to all of you experts out there to tell us how..........again.

It seems the fact that it's a costly admin. exercise combined with the fact that no-one else does it prevents the idea from progressing.
Unless the competitors can come up with a way of doing it.
Something like having an option on the entry form to select pre-posted map at additional cost. Then getting the maps printed ready a week in advance of the event. Then employing someone to stick address labels on envolopes, fold/roll maps then place in envolope.....

I'm sure it's not quite this simple, but if people are prepared to pay for the convenience then it should be considered. (The event is not the same for all now since the checkpoint locations are released days before the event, so this is not a valid reason for not sending maps.)

Steve
We have enough trouble with people not working out the entry fee now, further options will be even more confusing to some and an admin problem for us.
Perhaps the best way of overcoming this is not to put the CP's on the web site.
Alternatively we could explore the possibility of sending out digital maps with the CP's already plotted.

Graham

OK for those of us with access to an A0 sized colour plotter at work!

A couple of weeks before the Alston Polaris me and my riding partner were in Helsinki with no access to an OS map. So we did no less than 144 screen grabs off the internet so we could see what the event area was like. Had to print it off onto A4 sheets and tape them together.....

Please don't think about not putting the checkpoints on the web site - this is a very useful service and allows plenty of time to plot the points accurately before leaving for the event (or in my case usually on the 3.5 hour ferry crossing to the UK). This considerably reduces the time spent marking up on the Friday night and leaves more time for bike preparation and final kit adjustments etc. Obviously, if pre-marked maps are going to be available then part of this goes away but it is still part of the fun poring over the map and speculating over the possibilities!

For the spring event we are considering issuing a pre-marked laminated map each day at give out showing only the controls for that day.
So there will be no pre-marking of maps and no chance to look at the area.
This means that you cannot start planning until after the start.
This should be a big step forward and satisfy all.
This should be resolved shortly and an announcement made, but it would mean that everyone will have to buy the laminated maps.
Any comments?

Won't that be very costly and wasteful. it would be great to have pre marked maps, but we shouldn't get them until registration. If we had pre marked maps there would be no need to post the checkpoints on the web before hand.
But as long as the polaris chalanges keep going I don't really care how the maps are marked up as long as map reading skills are still required to do well in the event.

No it should be cost effective as we will only have to produce A3 maps for hand out at the start. At the moment we have to print the maps well in advance but with A3 maps we can print within 3 weeks of the event and have a better handle on the numbers.
Should make the event more of a Challenge as the route choice will have to be done on the move.

Like the KIMM, certainly as some advantages. No doubt the scores would come down somewhat as you'd need to spend abit of time planning the route from scratch, whereas at the moment you're able to get an idea and plan approach routes etc.

Pre-marked for me, don't mind extra cost,never do that much planning before hand anyway,just pick some check points, off i go get lost, do a lot of swearing at my self,then just enjoy the ride.
Try it-it's fun!

Great. All in favour of pre-printing. Some will say that only having the map after the start will change the unique nature of the PC, but I'd prefer it.

Can we have maps bagged not laminated? I know, I know ... organisational nightmare, but some of us like to scrawl all over them, highlight routes etc. Poly bags work fine for Trailquests.

come on Paul, modern lamination material allows you to write all over it with pens and pencil but will you have enough time to scrawl all over the map.
However, just had a thought, we will lose income from not selling the pens and roamers. Anyone want to buy a boatload of Staedtler overhead lumocolor marker pens?
Can't see how giving maps out at the start changes the unique nature of the PC but pre-marked maps does.

I agree with Paul, Graham. Laminated maps can be rather 'springy' and difficult to fold when you try to attach them to a map board. Even permanent marker pen ink can be rubbed off the surface of the map by friction, especially when it is raining or very muddy. I think A3 paper maps would be fine if supplied with the sort of sealable A3 plastic bag that is used at other events, and paper maps would be cheaper.

Will the fact that we will get A3 maps in the spring restrict the event area? The map for the recent autumn event was enormous. Are you planning to give us 2 A3 maps for the 7 hours on the Saturday so that there is the usual wide choice of routes from the start?

I am happy with the idea of issuing pre-marked maps if that is what the majority are saying they want but;
If you only issue maps on the day then it certainly does change the nature of the event. At the moment, preparation and planning is a major part of the event but, by handing out the map on the day, preparation becomes meaningless. Also, it gives the locals a greater advantage as prior knowledge of the area will reduce the amount of time spent deciding route choice after the give-out.
One of the major pieces of preparation that I do on the night before is checking the map to ensure that I know the best route between checkpoints. Sometimes, this requires a magnifying glass to spot instances where tracks don't actually meet up or where a footpath section renders a trail unusable. If all this is done on the fly then there will be more teams using illegal routes and ending up in dead ends at the back of farmyards etc. USe of GPS will become impractical as well as it takes too long to enter grid refs on the move. I know there are those who don't think GPS should be used but, again, it is all part of the fun of the event experimenting with new methods etc.
Polaris is on a bigger scale than a Trailquest and the length of open moorland trails means that time spent studying the map gives a better understanding of what kind of terrain is likely to be encountered. This is different to the average TQ where the checkpoints are closer together and route choice is less critical.
For my part, if you take away all the preparation and options then Polaris will just become another Trailquest and become more of a lottery. Whilst this probably means that it will shake up the established pecking order that may also mean that the desire to keep coming back to improve your performance becomes pointless. I.e. the regulars won't come back for more?

Poly bags at spring and autumn events?
Aaaaaargh!!!! If maps are pre-marked, you
don't need to write on them, and if they're given
out on the start-line, you won't have time to
write on them. Paper maps + poly bags +
mud + water = coloured mulch.

Paul/Henry

If you are that worried why not bring your own plastic bag?

Graham L

I would worry about only using an A3 sized map as surely that will restrict the size of the event? Or will it be double sided? (I presume that would make it about the same size as the Alston Map in total)?

The point about greater use of illegal routes without pre-planning is valid as this Autumn I would have certainly used the footpath between 16 and 17 had I read the map "on route" as it was almost impossible to spot. In fact I was only aware of it as I was chatting to Roger when somebody pointed it out to him so may not even have spotted it in the comfort of the b&b.

I have never premarked potential routes between checkpoints before (most probably because I was riding too slowly for it to matter) but after Alston decided that it would be a much better way of planning, so I for one would miss that opportunity and yes this could give a greater advantage to those with local knowledge (better get working on the Hertfordshire Polaris then)!!!

I'm with GrahamIOM on this one. Scrutineering the map the night (or morning) before contributes enormously to general route planning. Pre-marked maps mean that you are basically unable to familiarise yorself with the geography of area within which you are about to ride. The advantage for local riders is greater than it otherwise would be if people have had 12 hours to look at the map.

As Graham points out, it certainly renders a GPS useless in this scenario. Though there is a group of people that say GPS should be banned anyway because 'it takes the skill out of the event', there seems to be another group who say 'can we have our maps pre-marked please, its too much faff to have to do it myself'.

Perhaps sending out the checkpoint grid refs and OOB areas with the event details would be an easier way for people to get their maps marked up before registration.

Would it not be possible to hand out the premarked maps at registration showing just the cp's and not their value ? in doing so those who preplan their route can do so, but the position for the majority who pick their route once they see the value of each cp is unchanged.For the very few who seem to manage to vist most or all the cp's then again there is little change.

It would make a very welcome change not to scrum down on the Friday evening after battling with the M6 North to mark up the maps, but agree with most that to have sight of the map before the start would be useful but either way it is equal for all !

So far as local knowledge is concerned surely that is just the luck of the draw , I for one take part in these events rather than compete !