At the last Polaris event in Alston we handed out a qestionnaire at registration and received 82 replies which at 20% represents an acceptable sample.
Results are as follows:-

82 People completed the questionnaire
16% were first timers
16% suggested we drop the Autumn event
26% suggested we drop the Spring event
42% suggested we drop the Summer event
20% for no change
100% Travelled by car
82% Car shared
17% Did not camp
40% took time off
59% travelled after work
23% influenced by trafic
98% have access to internet
85% visited PC web site
29% wanted postal entry
68% wanted on line entry
80% would enter direct on line
23% thought entry fee was too high
0% thought the entry fee was too low (no surprise there)
66% thought the cost was just right
27% would pay more
48% would accept dropping the free meal
48% wanted pre-marked maps
76% wanted maps to be part of the entry fee
96% satisfied with the format
56% would enter a 24 hour Polaris

Some interesting points, thanks to all that entered, I will now put them into a hat and draw out a winner and sort out a prize with Roger.

Roger - Interesting reading.

Out of interest have you thought about a mailshot (or email) questionaire to all those on your database, i.e. to include the people who have entered before, but not again, to find out why?

See you in the Spring

42% suggested you drop the most popular event. Obviously, these are the people who are only interested in what they see as the real polaris.

I'm always fascinated at how selfish people can be. Why would you want to remove a very popular event just because you don't take part?

It would be interesting to do similar at next years summer event.

With the figures as they are I would have thought logically it would make more sense to have 2 summer style events and only 1 autumn or spring style.

I think you're probably right Karen... after all,
the Polaris 'kit-carrying' element is hardly a
test of survival and self-sufficiency skills, it's
just a bloody great lump which stops you
enjoying good biking as much as you could
with just a day-pack.

And as for spending a long night eating
noodles in a smelly wet tent, well, maybe it's
lost some of its appeal - hence the drop-off in
entries.

Surely the biggest part of Polaris' appeal is
riding in good areas over 12 hours and two
days... not carrying uncomfortable loads of kit?

In fact, why not swap the formats round... do
'real' (?!) Polaris format in summer when you
at least get chance to sit outside your tent and
enjoy the evening/not freeze your nuts off, and
summer format in Spring and Autumn, when
you don't need to carry all that winter clobber
and you get chance to actually enjoy Sunday's
ride when well-fed and rested, rather than just
endure it.

(retires to safe distance)

Andyh,not a bad idea swopping formats around,what about making sunday 7hrs as well,then we can total knackered at the end of the weekend!
No i'm with the Beatles on this one "let it be".And
No i'm not a beatle fan either!

Karen

Some big assumptions there!

If I recall the question was "if an event had do be dropped which one?" most people would provide an answer but I expect most would think "none of them" I don't remember that as an option (was it Graham?) i presume therefore that the 20% didn't tick any? (but of course I'm making an assumption there)!!!

Karen
We have no intention of dropping the summer event and it is no surprise that the results from an Autumn event should suggest that we drop the summer event. There was no option but with hindsight I should have just restricted it to the spring/autumn events to get some feedback. Most people enjoy both formats and can use the summer style event to transition to the (real)PC.
Andyh
Fair point, well made but the whole Polaris thing started as a MTB version of the KIMM, ie 2 days on a bike with an overnight camp, you don't get people wanting to change the KIMM. 96% were satisfied with the format so there is no reason to change. If we soften the event then it would become just another 2 day TQ type event.
Possibly with electronic scoring we could include both formats on the same weekend but that would need some thought.
Swapping the formats around is an option but the thought of running the event in a freezing cold marquee with condensation dripping all over me does not appeal to me as an organiser, does anyone remember Galloway. Again one of the appeals of the summer is sitting around on a long balmy night enjoying the craich is part of the attraction but recent Spring/Autumn events have been equally pleasant, remember Salibury?

Fair enough Graham, although I don't think
that an event being 'TQ-type' is a problem -
after all, that's exactly what Summer Polaris is
but longer and over two days. And that's the
format which is proving most popular (from
entry numbers, at least).

I just wonder if the trudging around with kit
element of the Spring and Autumn events -
plus having to go out and buy it all if you're a
first-timer - is what's causing the drop-off in
numbers. I don't mind some discomfort if I
can see a reason for it - eg getting to a true
wilderness camp - but being wet and hungry
(for decent food) half a mile from a village
seems a bit pointless. After all, we do Polaris
to ride our bikes, not to fester in a tent for 16
hours!

As for marquee logistics etc if you swapped
the formats, why not just hire a village hall for
the Sat night 'social' - that way, everyone
keeps warm and dry.

I quite like the riding but don't particularly like carrying all kit, I do the spring and autumn events but would not be at all upset if they were organised like the summer event and I could carry less stuff. The main thing is that I would like to see the PC continue in what ever form as I really enjoy participating in them (even if only after the event)

Yes, interesting results. I completed my survey but forgot to hand it in.

Re: which event to drop - I also don't recall the leaving things as they are option. Would suspect that would be the most popular option.

Interest that '17% Did not camp', I'd have thought that proportion would be somewhat higher.

If 17% did not camp.what did they do sat night?

GrahamL, it was hinted elsewhere in the forum that these events are struggling to make any money due to increased set-up and running costs and falling numbers of entrants. Your questionnaire hints at dropping an event perhaps to alleviate this problem.
Is one possible solution to defer the spring event to, say, late April and make it summer format, and have a single 'proper' polaris in the autumn when you carry all the gear. The IOM event worked really well in late spring, as the weather was good and it is before the start of most of the other endurance events with which you have to compete with in middle of July. Just a thought.

the camping was on the Friday night but I suspect that most people who filled in the questionnaire camped and those whjo went of to B&B etc did not bother or forgot after being to the pub.

Ian
We don't want to drop an event at all but if we did then it would probably be the Autumn one as there seems to more on with KIMM and an ACE race just after.
The late April one for IOM was to co-incide with Easter for travel arrangements but that was not too well supported.
I don't think it is the date or the kit that is the cause of the numbers falling off I am of the opinion that there are more events now and we have to compete for the custom. Our PR and image needs to improve and we have plans in place to improve that.
Interesting comments keep them coming.

Response to Andyh from a first timer,

Your speculation about first timers being put off the Autumn PC was definitely not true in my case. The contrary was the case. I had not taken part in anything like the PC before, but have heard great reports from friends who have completed in previous events over many years.

One of the attractions to taking part in the event *was* carrying the kit, being 'self-sufficient' and doing something which is vastly different from my normal weekend rides.

The second part of the PC title is Challenge. It is aptly named. Sorting Kit out whether for a first timer who is trying to spend much on kit (beg borrow or stealing from friends and acquaintances) whilst keeping bulk and weight down is definitely a challenge. And I have to say was part of the enjoyment of the Challenge.

Drawing on the theme of other threads, another part of the challenge is the map work on the Friday night, which includes the challenge of getting to the event in time to do the necessary work. Many of the people who seem to bemoan the work necessary appear to be old hands at the event. Or to be controversial, live in the London area and consider that getting to anywhere other than somewhere else in London as a Challenge. Travelling for 3 - 6 hours is a normal part of my weekend sports activity (other sport though) which is equally physically demanding. Strangely it is the the London dwellers who appear to consider travelling for more than a couple of hours is bang out of order. Rant over.

To get back to the original point of this post: If the PC is watered down by pandering to the wishes of a few who don't want at a Challenge in the fullest sense of the word may reduce the actual appeal of the event as a whole.

I will be competing in the Spring Challenge and look forward to it.

JW

Graham, fair comment about KIMM and ACE clashes with autumn events, although I don't compete in these. Glad to hear you don't really want to drop an event. Re: IOM - I think part of the problem was that is was easter w/e and the event was IOM that put people off - which was obviously a shame as it was a great event. Both of these aside may see a good turn-out for a summer style late spring event, if you felt inclined to organise one.
I think that the necessary aquisition of kit to do the proper autumn/sping events must put some people off to some extent, which is indicated by the realtive popularity of the summer event.

I'm glad you enjoyed your first Polaris JW,
although I suspect you might be in the minority
in finding the journey to it part of "fullest
sense" of the challenge. Personally I've never
found sitting on the M1 provides much in the
way of satisfaction, but maybe I'm missing
something...

My comments were aimed at trying to work out
why Autumn and Spring have falling numbers,
and Summer is always full. If Polaris is going
to survive and attract new riders - not just the
pandered-to 'old hands' - it's going to have to
work out why this is the case and evolve a bit.

New events such as ACE races etc are just
more competitor-friendly, and I think this is
what Polaris need to become in order to keep
entries high. Format change, pre-marked
maps etc may be a way of doing this. PR and
better organisation are others (for example,
ACE Races have enough portaloos on the
campsite to ensure a 30-minute queue isn't
the way you start your weekend....)

But hey, it's just a bike ride!

:-)

I just had a look at www.KIMM.org.uk, and it does seem to give a good feel for what KIMM is like to compete in. If people can see the scenery and terrain , get a feel for the overnight camp, see smiling faces at the finish and read some interesting anecdotes, then it does bring the event to life a little. Doing the same for PC might take away some mystery for people undecided on entering (at least the 85% who visit the website) and make the duller aspects of the preparation a bit more bearable.
It must take a huge effort to put this together, but KIMM clearly think it worthwhile as a means of maintaining and expanding their appeal.

I agree with Paul T, the addition of a few more event reports on the PC website, and Singletrack/Bike Magic might encourage additional entrants. Those early morning frost/fog photos of the wild campsites always inspire me to get an entry form completed (Lakes Autumn 2002 in particular).

Alright i give in call me stupid if you like but what the hell are these KIMM things and those ACE things,I still think pre-marked lam maps are the best way forwarded,it's bound to make the said travelling that little bet more enjoyable,knowing that you can relax when you arrive(nearly)!!

I agree with Andy
There will always be a turnover of entrants and my suspicion is that Polaris is not at present picking up enough newbies for the winter format
Perhaps it's part of the new softer dumbed down Britain that we live in.
However running a summer format in winter wouldn't entirely get rid of the kit as a lot of areas would still neccessitate the carrying of a survival bag and decent winter clothes.
I remember Galloway. I got my face in the mags and came last.
ps with proper planning and electronic whotsits premarked maps are a doddle.

KIMM = Karrimor International Mountain Marathon
Basically like the Polaris but on foot. As far as I know it's always held over the weekend that the clock's go back. See http://www.kimm.org.uk

ACE = Adventure Challenge Endurance
They run a few different types of event, but the one people talk about here is generally the 2 day format run as a series of 4 events per year. The dates move around so sometimes clash with the Polaris, sometimes not. Format varies from one event to the next but goes something like 4 hour score orienteering, 5 hour trailquest, 90 minute night score orienteering, 2 hour canoe score orienteering, 12k trail run. Is much more running orientated. Worth doing at least once, but make sure you do some running training first! 2004 series seems to be back to more usual dates which avoids a clash with Polaris. See http://www.acreraces.com

Thanx for that Liam,sounds like a lot of pain,but hi so what's that they say "no pain no gain"!

Hey! Part of the appeal of a "real" Polaris is the chance to spend all that dosh on lotsa lovely outdoors kit - which has led me to my latest pastime - "6 month interest free credit card hopping".